Scammer=Cheating Domain Buyer

23 Oct

Posted by xBrain as domain

As my last two post on the domain business, I mention that I wanted to sell my domain if some one want to buy it. You can catch the last post if you missed the train.

Someone approach me to buy my http://www.site4bid.com. At first I was so happy somebody approach me directly without using the broker. He is using the Johnston name for your information. This is the first mail :

From: TNG Software Consulting <johnston@toughguy.net>
Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2007 2:42:38 AM
Subject: site4bid.com

Hello,
We are interested in site4bid.com
Your name was listed in online auction. What is your price for the name?
Our company is involved in software development/support business.
Now domain invetsing/reselling is just an additional direction of our investment strategy.
Looking forward to do business with you.

Regards,
Richard Johnston
President
TNG Software Consulting

So I reply back :

Hi Johnston,

Thank you for the email.
What is your price for the domain?

Regards,
Saiful Haq

Then he reply me back with the amazing price that can make everyone jump from their seat. He offered me a decent $5,000 to $6,000 price.

I need to know the lowest price you can accept.

What is your price range: $5,000 or $6,000 or even higher?

I’m sure it will take a lot of time and efforts to find someone who will offer you more.

Please send your answer to me as soon as possible.

Wow, the price is not bad and I play some tricks to him :

Now I received the best offer at $5450 from one company that they want to develop the site.
The deal will going on next week. If you can offer higher than him then we will proceed.

The domain are with Namecheap.

Btw, what is your company website and address?

I curious about the website name and I checked the company signature in the Google and don’t find anything. The domain toughguy.net is without a password and registered in using the USA address. What he reply back to me was :

Our company works as a contractor of a large corporation in Bern,
Switzerland. We don’t sell anything online, so there is no need in a web
site.

See the bold sentences? I bold in the first mail he sent and this one. He said 2 things differently. I have to continue mailing him to get to know the modus operandi of their gang. This what I reply to him :

Oh, okay..So you are interested for the domain or not?
If you want, then we can proceed to the next stage.

After make good come back to business mail, he reply me with all the procedure that I have to follow this domain scammers :

Sorry for some delay. We were celebrating newborn child of my brother. Now let’s talk about the deal.
Can you accept 5,000 USD?Do you sell domain with a web site or just name?

If just name it’s ok. Web site is not necessary.

Have you had your domains appraised already? Can you show me your valuation certificates? As fas I know it’s a common practice to show appraisal of domain name (even without traffic and web site) before doing business.

Without appraisal I risk to overpay. In other words I won’t be able to make a profit on reselling this name. It’s very important for you and me to know the current market value of your domains.

Of course, we must be sure that you are engaging an appraisal company with REAL manual service. I heard many appraisal companies often made inaccurate auto-generated appraisals. I will only accept appraisals from independent sources I trust. To avoid mistakes I asked domain experts about reputable appraisal companies in a forum
http://domaintalk.ourplace.com/Archive/792846.htm

Just check this posting.

If the appraisal comes higher you can adjust your asking price accordingly. I also hope you can give me 10% - 15% discount of the appraised value.

After I get an appraisal from you we’ll continue our negotiations.
How do you prefer to get paid: www.escrow.com, www.PayPal.com check or wire?
Hope we can come to an agreement fast.
Looking forward to your reply.

I did go through the website that he asked me to go and finally I know what kind of tricks that he play. He wants us to order the manual appraisal by his company and when you pay the money he will disappear from dealing the domain with you. Below here is the full header email that I received from him :

From Johnston Mon Oct 22 09:18:55 2007
Return-Path:
Authentication-Results: mta392.mail.re4.yahoo.com from=toughguy.net; domainkeys=neutral (no sig)
Received: from 62.5.255.48 (EHLO smtp01.mtu.ru) (62.5.255.48)
by mta392.mail.re4.yahoo.com with SMTP; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 09:56:07 -0700
Received: from diamondoji4lze (ppp128-117.dialup.mtu-net.ru [62.118.128.117])
by smtp01.mtu.ru (Postfix) with SMTP id D8E91A6968A
for ; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 20:19:51 +0400 (MSD)
Message-ID: <046e01c814c7$638ea7c0$e4e18cd5@diamondoji4lze>
From: “Johnston”
To: xxxxxx - I hide this one
References: <164054.88594.qm@web56315.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: site4bid.com
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 20:18:55 +0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary=”—-=_NextPart_000_0451_01C814E8.C5D1FA60″
Content-Length: 20031

You see the bold in the blockquote above. Is it logic that someone wants to buy a domain for $5,000 using a dial up networking from Russian country? You think your self. Go to the google or yahoo and search for : diamondoji4lze

NamePros Forum discuss about this : http://www.namepros.com/warnings-and-alerts/355839-more-about-securenamesale-scams.html
Travis Wrote in his blog :
http://www.travisisaacs.com/
Dnforum discuss about this :
http://www.dnforum.com/f4/letter-arrived-need-appraisel-2-thread-54224.html
In Sedo forum also discuss about this topic :
http://www.sedo.com/forum/index.php4?task=showthread&thread=2772&tmp=&tracked=&partnerid=&language=e

Conclusion from xBrain :

Don’t trust this people as they are really expert scam people especially newbies which are new in the domain business. Go consult the 3rd party company if you want to sell your domain. Always use the big and well known company. If you have time, try to develop your own site and it will take some time to sell but with the higher price.

Scammer=Cheating Domain Buyer at Domains

October 23rd, 2007 at 7:53 pm
1

[…] Read this great post here […]
netster

October 23rd, 2007 at 9:56 pm
2

Had the same email arrive today, the email header info is almost identical. Figured it was a scammer due to Russian IP origin. Thanks for your post!
Markus

October 24th, 2007 at 10:56 am
3

I received the same scammer’s pitch.
Exact same script. The idiot did not even bather to change his style. Here goes:

Johnston wrote:

Hello Markus,

Sorry for some delay. We were celebrating newborn child of my brother.

Now let’s talk about the deal.

7,500 USD. Ok.

Do you sell domain with a web site or just name?

If just name it’s ok. Web site is not necessary.

Have you had your domains appraised already? Can you show me your valuation certificates? As fas I know it’s a common practice to show appraisal of domain name (even without traffic and web site) before doing business.

Without appraisal I risk to overpay. In other words I won’t be able to make a profit on reselling this name. It’s very important for you and me to know the current market value of your domains.

Of course, we must be sure that you are engaging an appraisal company with REAL manual service. I heard many appraisal companies often made inaccurate auto-generated appraisals. I will only accept appraisals from independent sources I trust. To avoid mistakes I asked domain experts about reputable appraisal companies in a forum
http://domaintalk.ourplace.com/Archive/792846.htm

Just check this posting.

If the appraisal comes higher you can adjust your asking price accordingly. I also hope you can give me 10% - 15% discount of the appraised value.

After I get an appraisal from you we’ll continue our negotiations.

How do you prefer to get paid: http://www.escrow.com, http://www.PayPal.com check or wire?

Hope we can come to an agreement fast.

Looking forward to your reply.

MY REPLY:

Mr. Johnson,

For your information, you should look into the following site http://xbrain.biz/

So sorry for the delay. I have been summoned to set up a bachelor party for my sister’s husband’s, uncle’s brother in law’s, cousin’s nephew’s goat. Not an easy proposition, but a hilarious site to watch.

Anyhow, the domain name BEIJINGCRD.COM that you have inquired about has now gone up in price and you are welcome to purchase it for $15,000. I have received 52 offers and the highest is $14500. Whomever makes the first qualified offer of $15000 will take it. This is your chance, so don’t blow it!!!

Should you need an appraisal, you are more than entitled to request one at your expense from any of the hundreds of companies offering such services throughout the http://WWW. You are the buyer, you get the appraisal.

Keep up the scamming attempts,

Markus
razorfizh

October 24th, 2007 at 11:46 am
4

Thanks. I have just received the same e-mail offering $40K for my site name - after I go get it appraised. Same guy - same e-mail address - and his brother just had another kid …..
xBrain

October 24th, 2007 at 8:37 pm
5

Markus : Thanx for attaching the email here. Your mail reply was superb.

Razorfish : If he really buy your domain for 40k then you can stop working and survive for 1 year with that money..LOL

thanx guy
Callum Thomson

October 28th, 2007 at 9:18 pm
6

I received it too, I was lead on quite well, those bastards!
He offered me $78000 for dreamnet-media.com and $900 for killtheemos.com
I knew it seemed creepy
valentino

December 13th, 2007 at 9:57 am
7

Thank you very mach for this post.
Today I was receive the same email (below). From Armin Zollinger.
I kook through google that it is serious businessman from Europe. Joke is that serious man send out his email:1) at 19:30 - some time after working day end; 2) from email address not company domain; etc.
After I search through google for sender IP: 62.5.255.48 and find this post.
Many thanks for beware. I will continue this game some time.

Hello,

We are interested in xxxxxxxxx.com

Your name was listed for sale. Please let us know your price.

Our works in information technology industry. Our clients are mainly from Europe, Australia, USA and Canada.

So investing in names is just a part of our investment strategy.

Looking forward to do business with you.

Regards,
Armin Zollinger
President
ITGN Technologies
Tim Greer

February 14th, 2008 at 1:39 am
8

I got an email from this guy today, with a different name (and different company name):

Hello,

Your name 2HOST.COM was for sale. Please let me know your price. Our company works on Internet communication software market.

So Internet names is just a part of our investment strategy.

Looking forward to do business with you.

Regards,
John Slaughter
President
TGN Group
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Message-ID:
From: “TGN Group”
To:
Subject: 2HOST.COM
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 10:44:43 +0300
MIME-Version: 1.0
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=”koi8-r”
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hello,

Your name 2HOST.COM was for sale. Please let me know your price. Our =
company works on Internet communication software market.

So Internet names is just a part of our investment strategy.=20

Looking forward to do business with you.

Regards,
John Slaughter
President
TGN Group
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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Content-Type: text/html; charset=”koi8-r”
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Hello,

Your name 2HOST.COM was for sale. =
Please let me=20
know your price. Our company works on Internet communication software=20
market.

So Internet names is just a part of our =
investment=20
strategy.

Looking forward to do business with=20
you.

Regards,John =
SlaughterPresidentTGN=20
Group=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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Tim Greer

February 15th, 2008 at 2:10 am
9

The appraisal scam’s web site is at http://www.EasyNameSale.com now. Here’s the scam/spam email report (a little different from the normal format, but I had to explain what the report was about, if there’s any hope of action finally being taken):

Subject: SPAM: Domain appraisal scam! [Fwd: Re: 2HOST.COM]

CC: kiselev@centelcom.ru, postmaster@centelcom.ru, abuse@centelcom.ru, abuse@retn.net, admin@retn.net, abuse@cogentco.com, abuse@hotpop.com, registrar@magma.ca, getaway@getaway.com, abuse@godaddy.com, abuse@ultrashock.com, miko@ultrashock.com, dhswip@peer1.com, abuse@peer1.com

Body:

This has been ongoing for YEARS. This person emails people asking them to sell their domains, tricks them into using their domain appraisal service for a fee and then disappears. They are spamming for their own service, but acting like they are a potential client of the service. I will provide relevant links to prove this, along with the email and email headers below:

I have emailed the following contacts, for the following reasons:

Spammer’s IP reported to: kiselev@centelcom.ru, postmaster@centelcom.ru, abuse@centelcom.ru

Spammer’s IP (upstream, as emails above to centelcom.ru bounce!): abuse@retn.net, admin@retn.net

Abuse reports to hotpop are never taken against against: abuse@hotpop.com,

As abuse reports to hotpop.com are always ignored (this spammer has been using them for YEARS), I’m emailing their upstream for this spam mail server: abuse@cogentco.com

The fake forum post site the spammer has been using: ourplace.com
Spammer’s URL: http://domaintalk.ourplace.com/Archive/790536.htm

Report for ourplace.com: registrar@magma.ca getaway@getaway.com

Spam says to go to: easynamesale.com (the domain appraisal scam site)

EasyNameSale.com registered: abuse@godaddy.com
EasyNameSale.com hosted at: abuse@ultrashock.com, miko@ultrashock.com
Upstream for web host: dhswip@peer1.com, abuse@peer1.com

Here is proof of this ongoing scam and spam:

http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?t=430411

http://xbrain.biz/2007/10/23/scammer…-domain-buyer/

http://www.namepros.com/warnings-and…ale-scams.html

http://travisisaacs.com/2007/08/08/o…name-scammers/

http://www.sedo.com/forum/index.php4…id=&language=e

http://www.antionline.com/archive/in…/t-264726.html

http://www.bloglah.org/xbrain.biz/2007/10

http://paulenderson.com/2007/10/12/t…appraisal-scam

Here is the scammer/spammer’s email, with headers:

——– Forwarded Message ——–
Return-Path:
Delivered-To: admin@chatbase.com
Received: (qmail 31537 invoked by uid 89); 14 Feb 2008 07:42:20 -0000
Delivered-To: chatbase.com-tim@chatbase.com
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Received: from diamondoji4lze (unknown [213.140.225.228]) by smtp-1.hotpop.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D33F91482F3 for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 08:44:36 +0000 (UTC)
Message-ID:
From: TGN Group
To: tim@chatbase.com
References:
Subject: Re: 2HOST.COM
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 11:42:54 +0300 (00:42 PST)
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=”koi8-r”
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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From: TGN Group
To: tim@chatbase.com
Subject: Re: 2HOST.COM
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 11:42:54 +0300
Can you accept 12,000 USD?

Do you sell domain with a web site or just name?

If just name it’s ok. Web site is not necessary.

Have you had your domain names evaluated in the past? I mean domain
appraisals.

Without valuation we cannot be sure in the sale price. It’s very important
for me in terms of reselling too.

But we must engage a valuation company with REAL manual service. So I will
only accept valuations from independent sources I trust.

To avoid mistakes I asked domain experts about reputable appraisal companies
in a forum
http://domaintalk.ourplace.com/Archive/790536.htm

Just check this posting.

If, for example, the valuation comes higher you can adjust your asking price
accordingly. It will be fair. I also hope you can give me 12% - 15%
discount.

After you send me valuation via email (usually it takes 1-2 days to obtain
it) we’ll continue our negotiations.

What is your preferred payment method: Escrow.com, International wire
transfer, PayPal.com or something else?

Hope we can come to an agreement fast.

Looking forward to your reply.
Ravi

February 15th, 2008 at 9:28 pm
10

HI All,

Got a same email from John Slaughter yesterday. At first i was happy to recieve an offer but later i figured out that something is wrong. It started when i listed my domain at sedo. Looks like he picked up my email address frm there. Then i searched google with his name and his co. name TNG Solutions, and found a lot of info about his scam

Thank you all

Ravi
DSRDomains.com
Domain Appraisal Scam

June 28th, 2008 at 10:20 pm
11

Morons! They “never heard of” Moniker but highly recommend ENS. They had me going for a while but I would never pay for an appraisal on the request of a buyer so I did my best to “help them” make their decision. Full email thread below (including my latest response):

————————————————–

You may use any appraiser you like. You are free to order an appraisal from EasyNameSale.com and make me an offer for XXXXXXX.com that you are comfortable with based on the trust you put in their appraisal.

On 27-Jun-08, at 4:17 PM, NG Services wrote:

Sorry, but I and my partners have never heard about them.

—– Original Message —–
From: XXXXXXX
To: NG Services
Sent: Friday, June 27, 2008 8:11 PM
Subject: Re: XXXXXXX.com

Hi Anthony,

Moniker is one of the biggest and oldest players in the domain aftermarket but it is true that they are not “mainstream”, they focus on high value premium domains and sponsor many (if not all) of the top domain auctions and events. I have used them and found their service as good as any. Again, I put a lot of weight on appraisals but if I would recommend them even though their appraisal would probably not favor my domain (like I said, they are “high-end” so if a domain is not spectacular and/or doesn’t have incredible traffic, they usually dismiss it as close to worthless but at least I would have a point of comparison)

Sedo would not make any commission on the sale unless you choose to make the offer through their site. I prefer escrow.com to be honest. In either case, their appraisal would not be biassed toward their listings since their listing not exclusive and they have a reputation to keep. In my experience, they have been very conservative with their appraisals.

Like I said, you can use any appraisal service you trust. I don’t require an appraisal. Looking forward to hearing back from you.

XXXXX

On 26-Jun-08, at 2:14 PM, NG Services wrote:

Hi XXXXX,

I’ve never heard about Moniker.

Sedo is a good broker and we can use it for transfer/transaction.
Unfortunately , Sedo is not acceptable as an appraiser because your names
are listed with them and they are not independent. They are interested in
earning 10% commission on every sale. I need appraisals from a company
which is not interested in selling your domains.

I researched several companies and here are the results:

I considered http://www.Afternic.com, but now it’s clear their service is not reliable enough.
Just read this:
http://www.igoldrush.com/links3.htm
“Capsule Review: After lots of complaints, Afternic is no longer a recommended service. We will re-review the service in the near future.”

Another complaint
http://www.out-law.com/page-1630

I was told about manual research service from http://www.DomainMart.com. It costs - $200/hour.

Many experienced sellers suggested me http://www.EasyNameSale.com as a trustworth manual service. They charge per name not per hour. I’ve read only positive comments about them athttp://www.aboutus.org/EasyNameSale.com.
—– Original Message —–
From: XXXXXXXXX
To: NG Services
Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 5:48 PM
Subject: Re: XXXXXXX.com

I am familiar with all but one of the appraisers mentioned at the link you sent me. Afternic no longer does “premium” appraisals, they are all semi-automated and Great Domains has discontinued the service and I’ve never heard of EasyDomainSale but you are free to use them if you like.

I recommend the following trusted services that all have a expert staff who perform appraisals manually:

http://www.moniker.com/pub/ShoppingcartOrderProductsServlet?cmd=orderproducts&cmdaction=appraisal

https://sedo.com/appraisal.php3?templateid=172&tracked=&partnerid=&language=us

https://www.godaddy.com/gdshop/dna/appraisal.asp?ci=9000

I prefer GoDaddy since they are the cheapest and there isn’t much difference since I’ve used them all before and they normally all come up with very similar figures. Sedo is probably the best and easiest to deal with.

It should be noted that appraisals can deviate wildly from actual selling prices even though they try to be objective. Many domain owners would never sell their domains at the appraisal figure and other times appraisals represent a price in a “perfect market” so domains can sell below their appraisal values “in the real world” regardless.

Ultimately, domains values (in the case of sales) are completely subjective and the “value” is without exception determined by only one thing and that’s the actual sale price once the deal is done. In turn, the sale has only two players, the buyer and the seller, while the “appraiser” is merely a spectator no matter how great his “experience” or “expertise”.

For our purposes, you could simply propose what domain is “worth” to you and I would consider it openly, any appraisal would have very little impact on my decision since the only appraisal that matters to me is my own (what the domain is worth to me and my projects versus its standalone value in “the market” which I’m very familiar with). If you require an appraisal to help you with your decision, you are free to do so.

My advice is that you consider the impact of a great domain on the success of your project and get back to me with a figure that you are comfortable with. Appraisals take time and are vague, they will invite more question than they answer.

Regards,
XXXXX

On 26-Jun-08, at 5:41 AM, NG Services wrote:

4500. Ok.

Do you sell domain with a web site or just the name?

Domain without content is ok with me. Web site is not necessary.

Have you had your domain names evaluated in the past? I mean domain appraisals. Without valuation we cannot be sure in the sale price. It’s very important for me in terms of reselling too. But we must engage a valuation company with REAL manual service. So I will only accept valuations from independent sources I and my partners trust.

To avoid mistakes I asked domain experts about reputable appraisal companies.

Please check this blog:
http://domainmarket.007sites.com/Archive/419570.htm

If, for example, the valuation comes higher you can adjust your asking price accordingly. It will be fair. I also hope you can give me 12% - 15% discount.

After you send me the valuation via email (usually it takes 1-2 days to obtain it) we’ll continue our negotiations.

What is your preferred payment method: Escrow.com, International wire transfer, PayPal.com or something else?

Hope we can come to an agreement fast.

Looking forward to your reply.
—– Original Message —–
From: XXXXXXXX
To: NG Services
Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 2:03 AM
Subject: Re: XXXXXXX.com

Hi Anthony,

I didn’t have a price in mind for XXXXXXXXX.com since I was planning to develop it but I would be willing to sell it for $4,500. I’ve sold worse domains for more and better domains for less so I welcome your feedback. I also own XXXXXXXXXX.com (http://www.google.ca/search?q=XXXXXXXXXX) in the same “style” and maybe a few more that I can’t remember.

By the way, it doesn’t help you to be using @phreaker.net email, “phreaking” has a negative/hacker connotation that might make most people ignore your emails, just my two cents

Regards,
XXXXX

On 25-Jun-08, at 2:37 PM, NG Services wrote:

Greetings!

econtroversy.com has been found via online auctions.

Please let us know the your price and we will consider it.

Our company is investing in High Tech and IT projects. Now the domain market is very attractive for us, since every business in the Internet requires a domain.

Looking forward to do business with you.

Regards,
Anthony Stecker
Vice President
N G (The Next Generation) Services
============================================================================
NOTICE - This communication may contain confidential and privileged
information that is for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any
viewing, copying or distribution of, or reliance on this message by
unintended recipients is strictly prohibited. If you have received this
message in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message
and deleting it from your computer.
==========================================================
Bo

September 4th, 2008 at 10:14 pm
12

The same thing happened to me a few days ago. I am still playing with the guy and getting some more riddiculus stories out of him. He is very persistent for those $60 of “manual evaluation”.

The “hope you will give me 10 to 15% off the apraised price” is completely identical with emails you got. They have since changed the format of the email to say this:

”
Hello,

Your domain name has been found online.

Please let us know your price.

We make money on selling and buying names and sites. Now the domain
business is very attractive.

Looking forward to do business with you.

Regards,
Robert Gardos
CEO
Elite Technologies

========================================================
NOTICE - This communication may contain
confidential and privileged
information that is for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any
viewing, copying or distribution of, or reliance on this message by
unintended recipients is strictly prohibited. If you have received this
message in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message
and deleting it from your computer.
========================================================
”

and the follow up email:

”
Can you accept 8,000 USD?

Do you sell domain with a web site or just the name?

Domain without content is ok with me. Web site is not necessary.

Have you had your domain names evaluated in the past? I mean domain appraisals. Without valuation we cannot be sure in the sale price. It’s very important for me in terms of reselling too. But we must engage a valuation company with REAL manual service. So I will only accept valuations from independent sources I and my partners trust.

To avoid mistakes I asked domain experts about reputable appraisal companies.

Please check this blog with suggestions from other sellers and buyers:
http://domainblog.007sites.com/Archive/420689.htm

If, for example, the valuation comes higher you can adjust your asking price accordingly. It will be fair. I also hope you can give me 12% - 15% discount.

After you send me the valuation via email (usually it takes 1-2 days to obtain it) we’ll continue our negotiations.

What is your preferred payment method: Escrow.com, International wire transfer, PayPal.com or something else?

Hope we can come to an agreement fast.

Looking forward to your reply.”

Just to warn everyone out there that this gang is still very much active…